New biodiesel antigel/CFPP depressant

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Originally posted by Mike Briggs
lforbes, interesting data, thanks. Instead of heat tape, there are much easier options - in particular installing a heated fuel filter from Racor or Stanadyne (I think the Stanadyne FM100 is what some people have put in TDIs - you can get an option for it to be electrically heated). I put a VEG-therm inline heater before the filters in our cars (http://einstein.unh.edu/~msbriggs/BioTDI.html), but it would have been simpler to just go with a Stanadyne heated filter. The main problem is that while you can prevent the filter from clogging, the strainer at the fuel tank outlet can still clog. Do a search here in this forum for "fuel sender" and you should find a thread where we talk about removing this strainer (it references some threads at tdiclub).

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Excellent info Mike - the heat tape was getting a little problematical as there is little room in my TDI to wrap and insulate the filter. In regards to the strainer, I seem to recall that Canadian TDIs don't have the strainer for some reason (or maybe it was some other thing at the fuel tank). Anyhow. I'll look into it...

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Instead of heat tape, there are much easier options - in particular installing a heated fuel filter from Racor or Stanadyne (I think the Stanadyne FM100 is what some people have put in TDIs - you can get an option for it to be electrically heated). I put a VEG-therm inline heater before the filters in our cars (http://einstein.unh.edu/~msbriggs/BioTDI.html), but it would have been simpler to just go with a Stanadyne heated filter.

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Looked into the FM100 - it will apparently fit in my VW TDI (barely) but the warranty does not apply to BD ("gummy and acidic" according to the Stanadyne rep). The local dealer wants $266 Can as well (with the heater option)[xx(]. I'd kind of prefer a 120V heater as it could be run both in the garage and on the road via an inverter. As I think I mentioned before though, there is little room around the existing filter to wrap heat tape and insulation. Maybe going with the FM100 and heating the unit with a radiant heat lamp or some such while the car is plugged in would work (?).

Wow, I didn't realize the FM100 was so expensive - I thought it was something like $50. The VEG-therm heaters I installed were something like $30-40 if I remember correctly. You could also put in a Zero-start plug-in heater to heat up the coolant while the car is parked (can put on a timer so it starts heating a while before you're ready to drive). Those cost $100, and supposedly work very well. Primarily for getting the engine warm, but that heat should also help warm the filter.

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Originally posted by Mike Briggs
Wow, I didn't realize the FM100 was so expensive - I thought it was something like $50. The VEG-therm heaters I installed were something like $30-40 if I remember correctly. You could also put in a Zero-start plug-in heater to heat up the coolant while the car is parked (can put on a timer so it starts heating a while before you're ready to drive). Those cost $100, and supposedly work very well. Primarily for getting the engine warm, but that heat should also help warm the filter.

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I've sent email to a US dealer to see if their pricing is more reasonable. Even the Veg-Therm (tubes only) are about $100 US now. Already have the Zerostart (works great BTW). Just had a thought - use a Zerostart (mine cost about $60 Can) (at reduced Wattage thru an inverter)as an inline fuel heater [:D]

Wow, why did the Veg-Therm get so expensive?! Yikes! I can't remember exactly how much I paid, but I know it was less than what they're asking now. For that price, I'd go with an FM100 instead.

" Primarily for getting the engine warm, but that heat should also help warm the filter." I have a Zerostart on my TDI. It doesn't heat the fuel filter. Only th efuel in the injectors. "Use the Zerostart to heat the fuel" Creative. But check that it doesn't use rubber seals. And it relies on thermosiphoning to circulate the heat. It has to be looped into a high and low point in the fuel system. You could couple a separate coolant loop to the fuel through a heat exchanger. Zerortart heats the exchanger, exchanger heats the fuel. This is what happens in my SVO TDI. But it stiill doesn't heat the filter appreciably. It might if the fl. exc. were very close to the ff. My Elsbett has an electric band heater clamped around the fuel filter to heat it directly. It gets hot too. Draws 20 or so amps, DC. Unf. , I can't tell you where to get one, as Elsbett doesn't sell them separately.

An update on my cold weather BD preparations: Have wraped my filter (VW TDI) with 120V, 80 Watt heat tape and Al foil insulation. This required moving the filter to a more open location in the engine compartment to allow space to accomodate the tape/insulation. I have the tape connected, through a relay, to an inverter in the car, and, to the electric cabin heater so the filter will be heated both on the road and when "plugged in" in the garage. I have also removed the fuel tank screen and associated checkvalve (which has a narrow flow passage) in the tank to prevent plugging at that location. Such filter heating will hopefully address the CFPP properties of the BD. To take care of the pour point issue in the tank, I plan on using the Lubrizol 7671A additive in 0.5% concentration (Lubrizol was kind enough to send me a few liters so I could try it out with my BD in my climate). According to Lubrizol literature, 0.5% will reduce the PP to -39C and the CFPP to -16C for RME. They also claim it will work for soybean BD but I have no temperature data. BTW, even 0.25% additive will apparently reduce PP to -36C and CFPP to -14C, again in RME. I am tempted to try that reduced level but will probably stick with 0.5% at least for the first winter. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated......

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Originally posted by Mike Briggs
I was just made aware of a new biodiesel specific antigel/CFPP depressant that Lubrizol has on the market. See http://www.lubrizol.com/EnvironmentallyCompatibleFluids/7600index.asp and click on Lubrizol 7671A Claims that 1% will reduce the pour point of rapeseed biodiesel from -12C (10.4F) to -42C (-44F), and reduce the CFPP from -5C (23F) to -23C (-9.4F). If that's correct, this would DEFINITELY be worth trying. The Power Service products lower the PP well, but don't seem to do much for the CFPP.

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Hello, This is my first posting. Lubrizol is a highly credible company. I work with a number of their staff in the Technology Maintenance Council (TMC); they are great people. I am writing with a great deal of concern about the CFPP test itself. The test was originally developed in the early 1960's for light duty European vehicles. The CFPP test still uses a 45-micron screen; this is not representative of today's fuel filters used on modern diesel vehicles. Here are a few examples: Caterpillar 2 micron Ford 7 micron Detroit Diesel (DaimlerChrysler) 8 micron etc. Studies conducted by the Coordinated Research Council (CRC) and SAE utilized a number of fuel operability tests including CFPP, Cloud Point (CP), Low Temperature Flow Test (LTFT) and pour point (PP). Below are typical test times as well as the operability results reported by the CRC and SAE: Test type CP CFPP LTFT PP Test time 3-30 minutes(a) 1-6hrs 24-48hrs 1-6hrs Predictive capability to determine cold flow 98%(b) 64%(b) 89%(b) 13%(c) (a) ASTM automatic methods D5771, D5772 and D5773. ASTM D2500 manual cloud point measurements range from 1 to 3 hours. (b) Results obtained from 1981 CRC-528 (Coordinated Research Council) study. A more recent independent study, SAE technical paper 2000-01-2883, produced very similar results. (c) Results obtained from 1981 CRC-528 (Coordinated Research Council) study. The cloud point results demonstrate why over 95% of all refineries worldwide use cloud point; it's fail-safe and very fast. Furthermore, the cloud point test repeatability and reproducibility between labs is far superior to CFPP. My concern is credibility. The CFPP test only has a 64% chance of predicting cold flow accurately. In the event blended fuels are used, like a b5 or b20, and vehicles get stuck in a cold snap biodiesel may suffer an image problem. Check out what happened in New Zealand's Marsden Point Refinery when they only specified CFPP. In short, they had a really, really bad problem. Now NZ specifies CP in the summer and CP/CFPP with the same fuel specification data in the winter. New Zealand has nowhere near the temperature variance like the U.S. or Canada, that's an added problem for long-haul trucking (haul contracts at stake). If you review the 2000 SAE study, which can be purchased at minimal cost, you will find that the test used real world conditions in modern vehicles. In short, CFPP is not a good predictor of cold flow operability. The Engine Manufactures Association and Technology Maintenance Council jointly suggest a similar view: http://www.enginemanufacturers.org/admin/library/upload/61.pdf When you here operability numbers associated with pour point, it's best that you totally disregard those figures. Pour point is well beyond operability is any vehicle. In the fuel business, ipour points only value is the pumpability for distribution purposes. I hope the information herein assists biodiesel users. Challenges always accepted - I have tons of more interesting scientific data than what you see here. In closing, I am a huge supporter of biodiesel. I also contribute and participate in the National Biodiesel Board, several ASTM committees and other countries efforts to establish national biodiesel standards. Biodiesel is by far the best choice as an alternate fuel, so let's help protect its image. Frank

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Originally posted by Mike Briggs
I was just made aware of a new biodiesel specific antigel/CFPP depressant that Lubrizol has on the market. See http://www.lubrizol.com/EnvironmentallyCompatibleFluids/7600index.asp and click on Lubrizol 7671A Claims that 1% will reduce the pour point of rapeseed biodiesel from -12C (10.4F) to -42C (-44F), and reduce the CFPP from -5C (23F) to -23C (-9.4F). If that's correct, this would DEFINITELY be worth trying. The Power Service products lower the PP well, but don't seem to do much for the CFPP.

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Originally posted by fmeyer
Hello, This is my first posting. I am writing with a great deal of concern about the CFPP test itself. The test was originally developed in the early 1960's for light duty European vehicles. The CFPP test still uses a 45-micron screen; this is not representative of today's fuel filters used on modern diesel vehicles. Here are a few examples: Caterpillar 2 micron Ford 7 micron Detroit Diesel (DaimlerChrysler) 8 micron etc.

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Hello Frank and thanks for posting the information. The Lubrizol data sheet I have shows what appears to be the testing method for CFPP as "IP 30". Does this mean anything to you?? Since I was planning on using B100 througout the winter, I am concerned with your comments on the CFPP (and PP) ratings for the Lubrizol product as it appears my cold weather mods may not be sufficient. I am going to contact Lubrizol on Monday to get their take on it (I am especially concerned with the filter pore size used in their CFPP determination). Any other comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

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Originally posted by Greg BonneYes, we bought 2 55gal drums. We have used it briefly (has not been that cold since our purchase), but it is expensive: 1 gal to 75 gal biodiesel. Power Service is 1 gal to 200 biodiesel
Have any of you looked into Primrose Oil Inc. Primrose Oil Co. facilitates year around use of Biodiesal, and has been doing so for over five years now.

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Yes it exists, Have it, Part # 240 BG Products. Reply if you want to test. I Represent it, Have not yet tested it myself, I own a IP309. will confirm, would like you to test as well.

Can provide  test data if requested From bg Products.